The question becomes, if new variants develop vaccine resistance, requiring new vaccines, will those also be mandated, and when that occurs again, will then the even newer vaccines be mandated? At what point does that end?
My stance had always been to get the vaccine if you are in an at risk group, all others should do a cost benefit analysis for their personal choice, and the government shouldn’t mandate anything. Secondly, I believe the focus on mass vaccinations is short sighted and we would be better served focusing our energy on developing better treatment. We have the prevention part, for now, the vaccine, we should now be focused on developing treatments. This hyperfocus on getting to 100% vaccination rates is a waste of energy and possibly even dangerous.
For your information I did get the vaccine, and I got my sons also vaccinated (I did this because we live adjacent to a reservation with a high incidence of COVID, like most reservations). My wife however, I don’t feel should get the vaccine because A) she’s had the virus already and the research suggests that those who have had the virus are more prone to adverse effects and B) because she has a health history that some of the observed adverse side effects could be life threatening in her case.
Also, 100% vaccinations isn’t a realistic goal, this virus is likely to become endemic (and yes a number of well respected scientist agree on that). And if delta, lambda and mu variants are able to escape the vaccine as much as the data suggests (if the vaccine only reduces your risk of contracting the pathogen by one-third it isn’t a great preventative) then the chance of a vaccine resistant variety emerging from the vaccinated population that contract one of these variants goes up significantly (that is basic microbiology and is seen in the development of any type of resistance rather at the micro or macro level).
Will vaccine resistance as a result of mass vaccinations occurs? At this point the data isn’t conclusive enough to say one way or the others. But people like you and DoL piss me off with your scientism, ad hominem attacks against anyone that doesn’t toe the line, and appeals to authority. Calling well respected scientist quacks because their view is different than the view of your preferred scientist is the sign of someone who lacks the necessary critical thinking skills required to understand actual science.
Nothing I have posted is scientifically inaccurate, nor is it outside the realm of possibility. I offered it as counterarguments to your statements. From this you decided to label me an anti-vaxx idiot, which is the furthest from the truth that can be (I’ve never once resisted getting any vaccine, nor have I am very once ever questioned the validity of any vaccine). I do however, have valid concerns (again, you haven’t offered any evidence that my concerns aren’t valid) that the push to get everyone vaccinated may cause unintended consequences. I based this upon my own extensive scientific and medical education and experience. Am I right? I don’t know and the fact is you don’t know either. I can’t find any peer reviewed research that disputes my concerns. I can’t find any peer reviewed data to support your assertion that all or almost every scientist, dismisses the possibility that mass vaccinations may lead to vaccine resistant varieties emerging.
In case I was wrong about this and you were right, I did an actual literature review of the data tonight and couldn’t find anything that supported your assertions. See the difference between you and me, is you keep citing journalistic accounts, whereas I went to the actual peer reviewed data. And all I could find for peer reviewed data concluded yes pathogens have become vaccine resistant in the past because of vaccinations, not all but some. That it tends to be a slower process than bacteria developing antibiotic resistance (which was something new I learned) and it is a possibility that COVID vaccines could possibly result in vaccine resistance emerging. That is what the peer reviewed data states. In laymen’s terms, the research at this point says “we don’t know but it is a possibility, more research is needed to rule one way or the other”. Based on the peer reviewed articles that are currently available, neither the scientist that question the safety of mass vaccinations nor the ones that deny mass vaccinations will lead to the evolution towards vaccine resistance are doing so with any degree of data to support their positions. Given this lack of data and peer reviewed literature, you can’t label anyone a quack for not agreeing with “nearly every scientist” which I have asked you to quantify and substantiate that claim.
As for the idea of herd immunity, this becomes extremely problematic for a variety of reasons, how fast the virus mutates, the number of cycling variants, how well each cycling variant responds to the vaccine, and the fact that it is a zoological virus. This argues again against the validity of Biden’s current approach of getting everyone vaccinated. And his and your demonization of people who choose not to get the vaccine. What do you say to my wife? The risk of her having adverse side effects that could even result in her death given her health history is equal to her having adverse reactions as a result of contracting the virus again. Should she quit her job and lock herself in her room until the virus is no longer present (which is never going to occur)? She has valid health reasons to be hesitant to get the vaccine. Is she an anti-vaxx nut too? But Biden has mandated that she has to get the vaccine because of where she works. And you defend that.
What do you say to the people who have only had one dose, therefore aren’t considered fully vaccinated, but had a reaction and were instructed not to get any further vaccinations? Do they also have to “quarantine” until the virus ends (again not a realistic goal).
Also, do you believe that getting more people vaccinated will end all the pain from the current spike? Because the experience of Britain and Israel (the latter which has a higher vaccination rate than the US) suggests that we would still have a spike, we would still have increase in hospitalizations, including maxing out ICU beds, we would still have increased deaths.
I am sure your doctor friends are frustrated, I spent 17 years in medicine and can name a number of times when all our beds were filled and we had people dying and it is frustrating. Ask your doctor friends though, what is the normal patient census and how many slack beds do they normally have? If it is like any hospital I worked at, to run in the black patient census had to be in the range if 90% of beds filled. Which means we had only 10% slack beds (and I’ve worked at both small rural hospitals, and huge urban and military hospitals, in fact I worked for providence medical in Anchorage, the largest hospital in Alaska, I worked at Brooke Army Medical Center, and Madison Army Medical Center and McDonald Army Community hospital, as well as Benewah Community Hospital in St Maries, ID so I have seen almost all aspects of acute care from rural to large urban hospitals) and the one constant was we averaged 90% bed capacity every day or staff got sent home, which sucked for the civilian staff at the military facilities because cutting military staff has no impact on budgeting, so the civilian staff always got sent home. The point is that it doesn’t take a lot to fill up most hospitals. And when I worked at Brooke Army in the late 90s (Ft Sam Houston is in the barrio) because we were a level 1 trauma center we got all the civilian traumas plus the military ERs and it was a rare Friday night that we weren’t stacking patients in the hall and diverting. At the time there was a major gang war going on with the Latin Kings. I’ve seen small town Idaho ER often stacking patients every flu season, I’ve also seen it at Madigan when I was stationed there. Hell when I was stationed at Ft Eustis working at McDonald Army Community we had to open two special quarantine barracks because of influenza and the hospital being full (of course it was only a 25 bed facility) I know because I was one of the hospital staff that was tasked with manning it. Now before you get all bent out of shape and make more erroneous charges against me, I am not saying that COVID is the flu, I am just saying that in my medical career I’ve often witnessed what you say your friends are going through. And yes you do get frustrated. It is the nature of medicine. Your anecdotes are just that anecdotes and not valid data to support your demands for vaccine mandates. And I guarantee if your friends stay in medicine, even after this virus disappears or more likely becomes endemic, they will experience the same situation multiple times in their careers.
Source : https://reason.com/2021/09/09/president-joe-biden-vaccine-mandate-announcement/1589